Sunday 13 September 2015

Changing Times: Stephen Dunn

In the third of my series of interviews looking at life at Hibernian since the protests against Rod Petrie last summer, I spent some time with Stephen Dunn, who is a Director of Hibernian Supporters Limited, and recently re-joined the Board of Directors at Hibernian in a Non-Exec capacity. This interview took place just before Hibs' win over Raith Rovers at Easter Road in August.

How happy have you been with the response to HSL so far?

Absolutely fine, we're very pleased so far. We kicked off in the first week of February and had a nice lump of folk early on supporting it, and we've had steady growth right throughout the summer.

The first six months we passed the 900 mark. The membership grows when something significant happens - we get a signing- we get 10 - 15 folk joining; Alan Stubbs re-signing - we got a lump.
So as a board at HSL, we're very pleased and now it's about driving forward and getting more people to join.

What challenges have you had to overcome since launch?

I suppose the biggest challenge was the impact of events here from 12 months ago. Relegation is never an easy thing, those things stick in the minds of supporters, of everybody. 
We pushed against that, we pushed against the protests that were out there, so when we launched - was it a perfect time to launch? No. Is there ever a perfect time to launch? No, we just launched and once it was launched a lot of the protests and a lot of the concerns started to fade away because we started to answer the questions directly and honestly.

The way it's set up is very simple, we're not a protest group.We collect fans' money to buy shares, period. That's it. So as soon as we get money we have an exclusive subscription for shares with the club. We write to the club and say 'here's some money.', they write back saying 'here's a share certificate.'. Simple as that.

That simplicity of message made it easier as the months go on. Do you make mistakes, yes, we make mistakes. The admin system - does it work? Well there's seven of us, and probably three of us do most of the admin work.

At 55 I was introduced to Twitter and Facebook and stuff like that having never done it in my life, I've got a wee Facebook page that I do for the theatre but only for a few friends, you know - nobody reads it.
So, for me to be introduced to that was quite daunting and we made some mistakes, as you do. But as we went on people began to forgive us a bit more, people began to see when we handed money over and the club were beginning to sign players, and sign players early in early August soon after the season finished, that we were beginning to make an impact. So the winds against us faded a bit.

We also started to play good football again, and fans were beginning to see what was happening with the club, within the football operations what Alan was trying to achieve, and what Leeann, and George and the rest of the board were trying to achieve. They could see there was something in this.

Was it problematical? Not really. Were they heavy winds? Not really. Fans were beginning to see progress behind the scenes and on the park.

I remember early on especially on social media, a campaign against HSL, with talk of ponzi schemes and things like that. How damaging do you think that was?

There's an old saying in marketing that any publicity is good publicity. First of all it's not a ponzi scheme, absolutely not, so while you may feel personally insulted you have to let it go past you.

Sometimes the people that shout the loudest get heard, but the longer you go at it, the more consistent your message is, the more honest your message is, the more people believe you.

We focussed not on retaliating, but on our core messages - you give us money, we buy shares, the more shares we buy, the more control we get in the club. We focussed more on our message than what was said elsewhere.

How would you sum up how the benefits of HSL to the club?

Well the money goes directly to the club, firstly. If you look at other clubs, putting Hearts aside for a minute, because they deserve special mention, but at other clubs where there are similar schemes they're going into the market to buy shares from people who own shares. 

That means that the money goes to the people that own the shares and not necessarily to the football club.

The simple thing we have is we're buying shares directly from the club, so all the money bar a maximum of £2 administration fee from Go Cardless who do the banking side for us, goes directly to the football club, and that translates to known budgets, certainty for the manager and Leeann, so if they know they're getting an amount of money from us each month for a year and beyond then they can budget more appropriately
.
That's why, and I'm not saying it was all credit to us, they were able to sign players early, because they knew what the budget was going to be. There was a certainty about the money coming in not just from within the operations of the football club but through HSL and the wider share issue.

At one of the recent Working Together groups, Leeann presented a message about fan ownership. The big selling point has been about signing players, but do you think there's scope to push the fan ownership benefit?

We actually banged on about it, the social media is one avenue, but we found early on that you only get to a limited audience on social media.

Jim Adie used the phrase 'boots on the ground' and we started going along to the associations, talked directly to associations and fans along with Leeann etc, and we talked about not setting targets but there are hurdles. The first hurdle is 20% ownership because that gets us a seat on the board, the next hurdle is 25.1% because that gives you, negatively called, a blocking vote, but the board have to consider our view and can't just railroad something through.

We've tried to emphasise that, but emphasise it in a positive way rather than 'this is a blocking vote' because we have to work with the club to put the best product on the park, which is what it's all about.

So yes, we'll continue to do that but it's easier to do face to face than sitting on a website, or twitter, or a blog or whatever. We've got just over seven and a half thousand season tickets, and thirteen hundred likes or tweets or whatever. 

So that means we're not getting to people who could join up and those are the ones we need to target, we need to get a way of targeting them.

That's just one message, the big positive message is that the more money we can pass to the club, the better the product is.

How has the reaction to the 'boots on the ground' approach been?
It's been good, you do get people still doubting, still saying 'we're not coming back until certain things change.' and I always say that we have no responsibility over that.

Our job is to raise money and buy shares,and if you want rid of anybody then the more shares, the more control, and if we get to 51% then we have control of the board.

Generally it's been favourable. I give great credit for this to Jim Adie. He felt that we could say things on Twitter and Facebook and it wouldn't really address directly some of the issues that were being heard against us.

Face to face we could look people in the eye and say 'That is wrong. You are wrong, this is what we're trying to achieve and this how we're trying to do it.' Whether they were converted or not, it doesn't really matter. What does matter was that we had credibility.

We went along en mass, the entire board - unless Charlie (Reid)was away touring - we went and spoke passionately as Hibs supporters first, then as HSL Board Directors, and we appealed our facts, and the simplicity of our message. And this did have an effect
.
One of the big boosts was St Pats joining, was the Australian branch joining, was the Hibs Supporters Association actually joining and giving us a major contribution, and that gives us a real credibility amongst the fans, and that's how it's gone.

I saw some opposition to HSL from St Pats' members early on on hibs.net, it must have been a big boost to get them onboard given their influence?

It was a key one, people are allowed to have their opinion, nobody's saying they can't have an opinion. All we ask is that if they don't like it that they don't interfere with it.

We just ask for a fair hearing and a fair chance, and the ability to put the right answers to some of the questions that have been asked, but if people don't want to join, they don't want to join.
The same with fan ownership. Some people will want it, some people won't, it's as simple as that. 

With the ownership comes responsibility, which brings us back to Hearts. Their supporters have embraced the responsibility of funding their football club. £140,000 a month they're putting into the football club through the Foundation of Hearts, and that's just to run it, that's not getting them shares. 

That responsibility of ownership means you might be asked for more money in the future. I'm a believer in the democracy of fans having a greater say in the club and indeed ownership, but it's up to the fans to decide whether they want to do it or not. You can't ask that question of HSL, you have to ask the fans and then listen to the answer.

How much has HSL put to the club so far?

In terms of money going in, it's £150,000 for the first six months, that figure broadly doubles over the next six month, so looking at £250,000-£300,000 ,which is new money, which is the key point.

It's not recycled money from season tickets or walk-ups, it's new money. Fans have put their hands in their pockets and it's new money that we've not had before. And if we keep growing then that money continues to grow.

It's a virtuous cycle for the club because it's new money coming in and it allows them to think about 'well, that would have been our player budget last year and the year before , but we didn't have this money, so it's now that plus the new money.' So that's the tangible benefit that HSL has had in the club.

I also think we've had some involvement in turning some of the negativity around a bit. I think the club has worked hard, I know Leeann and the comms team -  Colin Millar particularly, worked hard meeting the fans and answering very plainly some of the concerns either through the website or in meetings.

I think we've also had some of the responsibility for changing some of the attitudes. Some you'll never change, that's life. So those two things, money and the changing face of the fans' opinions about the club.

If we can talk about you now, you were a former board member and have re-joined - what happened there?

I was a board member after we were relegated last time, so perhaps they feel I might have some skills at Championship football. Last time I was book-ended by Alex McLeish and Tony Mowbray, and that was a particularly big change in the club as well. People tend to forget those days.Some of the fan opinions were just as vocal, and some of the protests just as hard as in the last year.

I did, I think, seven or eight years. I'm a great believer that if you stay too long, you're no longer independent, and one of the key roles of the Non-Exec is to be independent, and to be able to support and challenge the Executive to say "Are you doing the right things, is this the right way?"

That first period, for me,  there came a point where you weren't really making the difference that you should be making, so I left the board at that time. I had a period off, my wife unfortunately died, she'd been ill for a long time, all these things come together, so in 2007 when I left the board, I had a nice long period in between. I continued to come to games, I continued to support the club, I continued to do things for the club in the background.

I'm a do-er, the way it came about was that the board decided well before Leeann actually arrived at the football club, that things needed to change. They saw it. They could see the way it was going, and then relegation happened.

So they'd already decided that structurally the club needed to change, they needed supporters back on board  somehow, and part of that was the appointment of Leeann. 

Leeann brought along an agenda - a very good agenda, and transformed football operations at the club. There was already a view about a flotation, a share issue, before Leeann came. Regulations changed, we got relegated, things were put on the back-burner a bit. There was the BuyHibs initiative out there, and what eventually became HSL was out there. Around about October/November last year, I was approached to see if I could be a bridge between the club and the people behind the original HSL stuff, including Jim Adie.

I said 'Of course, I'll do that', the birth of HSL came about that Christmas. I acted as the middle-man to get Jim and the people behind his initiative to sit down with the club, and then just do what I do which was to drive things until they actually start.

During the course of that period I might have succeeded a bit, and having the experience I know how the football club operates and I think that was an important factor. I know how things get done at the club and the nuances and the likes, even though there's a lot of changes. 

That was useful from an HSL perspective and then Rod, as Chairman, said it might be a good idea if I came back on board.

With six/seven years more experience of business, my kind of view of the club had changed, and I felt I was more independent, I was able to really question some of the things being done. Also the experiences and learning of that '98-2006 period directly related to some of the things being done today.

The history of the club I know inside out, with the work with Tom Wright and the Historical Trust allowed me to say "Before you do that, you might want to think about this." So I think they found that quite valuable. 

I also retired from work, I'm not that old but I was in a position where I could stop work, so I'm at the club at least two or three days a week helping directly, so they thought I would be useful sitting on the Board as well, so that's how it came about.

How have you found it since?
It's like it was, I remember my first game I attended as a director originally, was Greenock Morton, and the responsibility hits you as you walk out onto that deck. There's lots of good ones, the 6-2, the Millennium derby, but you feel the full weight of every goal against you as a Board Director, but it's a challenge, and I like a challenge. 

The club's done lots of things right, and I think in amongst all the noise that's been out there in the last two or three years, people have forgotten that there are a lot of things right at this football club and it just needs a few things to put it on the right path again.

That challenge I really enjoy. I enjoy my football, and that challenge of helping this great club get back to where it should be is something that excites me, and I love it. And of course, being on this board with Frank is a great honour.(Said as Frank Dougan entered the room!). 

What message would you have for anyone thinking about getting on board with HSL?
It's quite simple - join if you can. I do actually mean if you can, we don't want to be irresponsible and ask people for money that they can't afford. We do realise that people, supporters, buy season tickets, buy tickets, buy merchandise, and in reality spend proportionately a lot of money on Hibs. 

Buy if you can, not only are you helping the football operation but you're helping create a bigger group with a bigger percentage in the club. It's a bit like a trade union, there's a power in togetherness. 

It's the same with the football club, if we're all going in the same direction it's more powerful.

HSL, the more members we get, the more shares we get, the more voice we get. But don't be irresponsible, let's be clear about that.

The message for me, is this is a great club. Football's cyclical. There's another team of eleven men out there trying to beat you so can't guarantee anything. But what I've seen, in the time I've been back, is a restructure of the football operation, better use of the training facilities, signing players to a structure that Alan wants to have in here, and putting in place a football operation so that when Alan inevitably leaves to go to another football club, it's easier to bring someone else in and that whole operation is maintained. 

That's all the great things that are already here, and to be part of that is wonderful, and HSL is a big part in that, so please get on board. 

I would like to thank all at Hibernian FC for their time with the interviews, and especially Frank Dougan, Amit Moudgil, Stephen Dunn, and Colin Millar for arranging them.

Sunday 6 September 2015

Changing Times : Amit Moudgil

This is the second part of my series of blogs looking at the inside perspective of life at Hibernian FC since the protests against Rod Petrie at Easter Road in the summer of 2014.

Since then, Leeann Dempster has made several sweeping changes at the football club, including appointing two supporter-elected representatives onto the board of Directors. I had some time with one of those Directors, Amit Moudgil, ahead of Hibs' 2-0 win, where he gave me some insight into his role and what changes he's seen at Easter Road since coming on board.

Tell me about your experience in the role so far.

It's been great, it's been an eye-opener, it's been exciting, it's been challenging. Hard work, as well. It's been excellent - I've really enjoyed it. Above all, it's been an absolute privilege, as a supporter when you go from sitting in your seat to coming in to help, taking that view that you and your pals have sitting next to each other and everyone else that's sat round the table talking about Hibs and being able to do something with that is really powerful for the fans, so it's been great. 

How have you gone about doing that?

I've tried to be as inventive as possible. I've tried to make myself as accessible as possible and as open as possible to people, so attending various meetings, whether it was Working Together - and I'll be the first to admit that I'd never attended a Working Together meeting before joining the board, not because I didn't want to but because I didn't really know what it was about. I started to attend them when I came onto the board and it quickly became apparent that the format had lost its way a bit and needed to be refreshed, so a few of us got together and drew up a battle plan to re-energise that whole thing.
For me, up until the relegation season loads of folk felt they had been grinded down and grinded down by just what's gone on in the last seven or eight years at the club. You can understand why people are staying away because there were so many more reasons not to come to the football club than there were to come to the football club. 
Towards the end of last year I had a meeting with George Craig - for about four hours - about how to raise funds for the Academy, but it turned out in the end that I took on a volunteer job with Graeme Mathie with the recruitment side of things - so co-ordinating scouts, and I'm still doing that today on a weekly basis.
We revamped the whole structure. Towards the end of last year, there weren't enough people, there was myself doing 13's to 17's, co-ordinating eight scouts trying to cover as many games as possible. It was very difficult. 
With the goodwill towards the club we've been able to bring in more people and that's helped me fall back in love with the club, and I felt re-energising Working Together and getting people to get involved with the workstreams and groups would get them to fall back in love with the club, too.
That's just one thing, another thing is being more visible on match days. I go to the Hibs Club before and after games, just walking around speaking to people I've never spoken to.
 I'm a confident guy so I don't feel nervous talking to people I don't know. If I'm up at the bar I'll end up chatting to someone in the queue and I'll ask if I can sit with them. It's never a problem, they really enjoy it.
They don't know who I am, I came from nowhere in the Hibs community, really. I only went with my own group of friends so it's really good to get out there and chat to people who might not have seen me round the Hibs Club before. It's good now, I've started to recognise people and they recognise me. They think it's brilliant having a Director coming to chat to people in the Hibs Club. For me, I just like to talk about Hibs, and as Hibs supporters we could do that all day. I don't think anyone would tire of that. 
I'll do walkarounds in Behind the Goals or in the stands. Today I'll sit in my own seat in the East, I still have my season ticket and just because I have a seat here (in the West) every week,it doesn't mean I want to use it. 
For me, importantly, the big change is I attend more away games. I'm probably not alone in that, a lot of people who'd go to away games would go in big groups. A lot of my friends couldn't afford to go every week, so we'd plan a few away games throughout the season. It'd be the usual, Aberdeen away or ones where you had good memories from the day out and the trip.So now, I try to go to as many away games as I can.
First and foremost I still want to get the experience, the reason I put myself forward is that I wanted to take these supporter views and put them forward at board level,  but I think you also have to understand what your role is.
You can't just think 'I'm a supporter', you have to think 'I'm a supporter but my responsibility to take your view and everyone else that is there, what are these people worrying about?'. 
So I've tried a 'Director on the bus' thing, where I travel on the buses, I'll pick a different bus every week to go to games, so I've got a captive audience for an hour or however long the trip is. I just walk up and down the bus, chat to people. I'm all club-tied up so for me, because I'm not as well know as Frank, for example, in the wider Hibs community, it's important for me to be recognised as someone who's representing the fans at the club.
It's been really good, really great, and if they've got a bowling club that they go to before the game, then I'll go there as well, and I'll sit and have a juice with them as well. For me, it's about bonding, and listening to them, the people that go to away games might not go to the Hibs Club every week, it's about being as accessible as possible, and that's what I've been trying to do.
Then online as well, it's difficult, I can't be on hibs.net or the bounce or wherever every day, I have an app on my phone if I'm on the bus on my way to work, or have a bit of time  I can just get through what's going on, particularly if people have sent me messages or highlighted my name.
I try my best to be wherever I can, I have to try and go to the people, and be their conduit, so I need to allow them the opportunity to speak to me.

What would you say have been your successes since coming on board?

Working Together has been a huge success, I stood at one of the meetings and spoke to Greig Mailer after a few meetings and said we had to change it. We wanted people to fall back in love with the club again, and that's what I did doing the recruitment work with Graeme Mathie, George Craig and Eddie May. 
You don't know how powerful that is, to fall back in love with the club again. It allows you then to get over the hard days, maybe Stranraer midweek where we won the game but people came away thinking 'we could have done a lot better there.' I think, for me, falling back in love with the club allows you to bear those little dips when they happen.
So I think that's been one, but generally just getting about hearing different people's views. I have listened to a lot of people who I might never have spoken to or had a reason to speak to,  now I feel I have a responsibility to do that.
One success is that more people are feeding in to me so I get a much better idea of exactly what their view is. It doesn't matter if you're a Hibs fan on this scale or that scale, a pessimist or an optimist, the guy that goes to every game and the guy that goes to no games. I'll keep in touch with folk that don't go to games and that's just as important. The success has been trying to bring people back together. I have one mate who's so stubborn about not wanting to come back and we've got a Whatsapp group and I just continually work on him.
I guess other successes, even before I was on the board, is revamping the structure for scouting for the youth academy. So we have a new set-up where I'm a sort of administrator and I have three folk that feed in to me, and we've split in such a way where there's not such a work load on myself.
I have my own job that I do 9-5, average 40 hours a week, have to do the board stuff and this stuff, so doing these things that I'm working on but I think the success is being able to deliver on what I think I'm meant to be doing. 
I think in a year's time if I'm not re-elected or if don't choose to be re-elected then I can hold my head high and say that I've genuinely tried to make myself as available as possible. 
Social media is something that I had went off, I had moved into a new role and thought social media was quite a dangerous place to be. I wanted to be more client-facing so had a bit of a cleanse, there wasn't anything controversial or anything, I think it was just a case of I wasn't on Facebook, I wasn't on Twitter, but what I've now done purely because I need to be an avenue for all supporters whether you're old or young or social media savvy or not, I need to be available. 
I think my biggest success has been getting out there and listening to people, going to the people - I think that's important. I might sit next to someone today in the stand but it might not be the best time  for them to talk to me about things. It might be that I might need to take the time to go to them and sit with them when they've got time to talk about it rather than me saying 'well it's convenient for me to sit in my seat and listen to you even though you might not want me to sit here asking questions.' 
For me, it's important and the success is going there and it shows people you care about their opinion. At Dumbarton away, I sat next to this guy and he sent me a message afterwards - I didn't know his name on the messageboards - he said it was so refreshing that you can just sit there and hear about what's going on at the club and give feedback. 
For me, I'm as passionate as the next guy but that doesn't mean I shouldn't listen to the next guy. I should listen to everyone. For me that's the biggest success, and really participating in the board meetings. I might be the youngest guy on the board, I might be the guy who's not as well known as everyone else on the board but I think that by the time I do leave I'm pretty sure I'll leave my mark in the boardroom and they'll know exactly where I'm coming from. 
I'm not one of these guys that's easily phased at all. Age, experience, it doesn't matter to me, I'm a clever guy I know exactly how to get people's opinions across in the right way so that they're heard correctly. Some people think that if they rant and rave, or if they talk quietly - they think they're both powerful in their own way and you can take those messages and ensure they're both heard. 

How did you find that first board meeting that you had?

I was excited. In the industry I've worked in for nine and a half years, and for the last six years I do a lot of client meetings. On the Wednesday before the Stranraer game I was in Glasgow presenting to fifty clients as one of the key presenters. Those situations don't phase me, I maybe get excited more than anything else, there's a wee bit nerves, but the first time I went in, the first thing I thought was that I had preconceptions and I wondered 'what are they going to be like?' 
Actually, to be honest there were people on the board that I had no idea who they were. I genuinely had no idea of their background, didn't know what they did. There were only a couple that I knew of or knew what they did, so it was interesting. 
After about five/ten minutes it felt like most meetings that I've been in, albeit more interesting because it was about Hibs and about football, but then again I treated it like any other meeting that I've been in. I treated it with respect and importance, and with responsibility that I have.
I'm one of these guys that as a board member I need to be responsible, so you get all the board papers the day before so I went through all of those, tried not to leave any stone unturned, and if there's a question, I'll ask that question.
It was exciting, I went in and I thought "Wow, this is actually happening.", but for me, that went away very quickly because it's not about me, it's  about everybody, It's about every Hibs fan that talks to me or gets in touch with me, or I read about or see what they're saying, like your blog or Jamie Montgomery's blog, or anyone that's doing stuff.
It very quickly comes down to me being able to fulfil that purpose and ensure that no matter what decisions are being made that I'm making them with a more informed point of view than some of the other directors, because they're putting in from their own expertise, mine and Frank's expertise is to be the voice of the fans, and we need to have that voice heard in the boardroom, so we need to know exactly what the fans want. 
To be fair, we are heard. There are no issues. Everyone's driving in the same direction. People are aware that the club is working very much together and it's all very positive. 
Don't get me wrong, there are hard times when you come out and see the hard work that you do and it's maybe not reflected on the park or it's not happening on the stands, but do you know what, that's something that we need to deal with as a club and it's for us to drive that, we have to make people want to come back.

How much has your role improved the connection between the support and the club?

I would say, if I only talk about my own friends here as an example and it'd probably reverberate throughout all my experiences, and you've got to remember I'm talking to people I've never spoken to before and I'm talking to them  for the first time, so first impressions count and it's not like I'm there saying things just to flatter people, it's straight from the heart because it's about us and the way I feel about the club. 
I think I've genuinely made a good... a better bond, even guys in my smaller group, it was them that I looked to before I joined. I said "Guys, I'm falling back in love with the club, doing this stuff with Graeme, this opportunity has come up to do something with the board, do you think I should go for it?", and they said "Amit you're definitely the right guy for it, you've got this, this, and this, you should go for it. We think you can be the person for the voice." 
If folk on my Whatsapp group are feeling down I'll come on and say a few things, and one of the guys will turn round and say 'That's why you are where you are, because you've got to look at the big picture.'
It's hard to see beyond16:45 on a Saturday, but when you let the dust settle, and what you say and what you'll achieve with what you're doing that's going to allow people to see exactly that there might be a disappointment there, but there are amazing things happening at the club that you know a little bit about, but I can see all the things happening and when you see these things in totality you can see it's like a huge wave of change coming along. 
That's just the feedback from my friends. Having a bit of feedback from people on the bus before games, or in the Hibs Club, or on Twitter, an email, someone will just say "That was really good, it's great to have someone on board who's making the effort."
You've got to go out and do it, it's not just Amit going out and going to the games. I thought I'd only wear a suit five days a week for my job, but I feel really proud going out my house with the club tie on.

What would you say to supporters who are maybe reluctant to come back?

I don't want this to be a big one, I want to let this one resonate.  I would say that the past is the past, we can't change that. We've all been there, we've all been hurt. There's things that we've all not been happy about, but if you speak to someone who's going to games regularly, or has contact with the club, if they're coming to Working Together or doing something of their own accord, you are the people that can deliver that message. Look, come back and see that it's night and day. I'll ask people when was the last time Hibs had a side that was nearly the same core as the season before?
It's always been change, and change, and change. That's just one small thing. Most people who go to a game, one game, or even read about that, you can see that we've managed to hold on to someone or bring in other players. 
Give the club a chance, that's just one thing. Come along and speak to us at the club, it's a far more open door policy. It's our club, we decide what we want to do with it, if you want to come and back it, then come and do it. I can understand that there are people who have their reasons not to, but I'll do my best to convince them that there are more reasons to come back than not to.

Many thanks again to Amit, Frank Dougan, Stephen Dunn, and Colin Millar for their time.

Wednesday 2 September 2015

Changing Times : Frank Dougan

It has been around fourteen months since angry Hibernian fans gathered outside the West Stand at Easter Road to protest against Rod Petrie's involvement with the club. Hibs had just been relegated after an appalling run under then-manager Terry Butcher, and the club was at its lowest ebb in many years.

While the protesters made their feeling known, inside Easter Road Leeann Dempster - Hibernian's newly appointed Chief Exec - met with a group of supporters to introduce herself and to try and convey what she was hoping to achieve at Hibernian.

Since then, the 'wind of change' has swept through Easter Road. A new regime is in place, Butcher has been replaced by Alan Stubbs and his coaching team, the youth set up has altered, and Hibs recruited a 'Head of Football Operations' in George Craig as the whole club was shaken up.

Hibs finished second in the league last season, reaching the quarter finals of the League Cup, and the semi-finals of the Scottish Cup in the process. Although promotion eluded them, it is a very different Hibernian that you see today, to the one that slumped to play-off defeat against Hamilton to find themselves relegated.

I have been fortunate enough to have been given access to some of the Hibernian staff to explore how the club has changed in their eyes since Leeann Dempster took charge.

The first of this series of blogs is an interview with Frank Dougan, who was elected onto the Board of Directors as a supporters' representative, along with Amit Moudgil.

I had met Frank before, but had never taken the opportunity to have any kind of conversation with him, and so I was really interested to get to know Frank better and to understand more about his views on the club. You can tell within minutes of talking to him just how passionate Frank is about Hibernian, and it's not hard to understand why he was elected to the role by his fellow supporters. If you cut Frank, he'd bleed green, and his desire to see Hibs back where they belong was evident throughout the interview.

Now you've had a chance to get your feet under the table in your role, tell me about the experience so far.
The experience has been fantastic, bar the football. Nothing has been held back,and we've been told every single thing. I try to get to all the games, the only one I don't get to is Tynecastle - but that's a long story. I don't like sitting in the director's box, to be honest I prefer sitting amongst the fans and I try to do that as much as possible. I'm there for anyone that wants to speak to me. I get a lot of good suggestions, a lot of criticism as well, but the majority is positive. When people are face to face it's positive. Keyboard warriors really do worry me, there's people out there with an agenda and it doesn't matter what Hibs do, they're going to criticise. If we're winning the Premiership - why are we not winning by more points, if we score ten goals and concede one, it's why did we concede one. It doesn't matter, they have a negative agenda and they're not prepared to do anything, and that really worries me.

How damaging do you think those people are?
I think at the moment they're quite damaging because we've not got off to the best start this season, but I can categorically assure you that people like Alan Stubbs, George Craig, and Graeme Mathie, are working so, so hard to find players to bring in, and it's not easy. There's a budget. We have to realise that there's a budget and the only way to increase that budget is for people to turn up. When I look at last season I had four criteria. First and foremost I wanted to see us sign better players, well we've done that. Second I wanted to see us play better football - well that wouldn't be hard, but we've done that. Third,  I wanted to see us get to the play-offs, and we did. And fourth I wanted decent runs in the cup, which we did. I know we got to a semi final and a quarter final, and the two games against Falkirk and Dundee United I thought we played well and were unlucky in both games. We finished second in the league, we were second top scorers. I thought we did ok. I can't understand why people don't turn up to the games and that frustrates me. 

I asked that question through pre-season on hibs.net - what would make people come back? Why do you think some people are hesitant to back the team? 
There's 1300 people who haven't renewed from last season, and we're actually up on season ticket numbers overall, so why are these people not coming back? I was one of the people that phoned round and yes, there were half a dozen people who had a brother that wasn't well, or were moving to Canada. One guy had just had a baby so couldn't afford it - he's still going to come just not as often. I can understand that. But not to the extent of what we are, surely if you bought a season ticket last year, you got it when we were relegated but you'll not get one this year? Alright we're in the same division but we're seeing better football, more attacking football. Seeing the football that I love, that I was brought up on. And people are using excuses like Rod Petrie's still there, Tom Farmer's still there - I'm sorry but it's so petty. The changes in the club since Leeann Dempster came, and don't forget, Rod Petrie and Tom Farmer built the stadium - not them personally, but they made it happen. We've got the stadium, we've got the training facilities. I'm not singing their praises because I think there's been a lot of bad management in the past, and I'm not saying they're not responsible for bad decisions. Don't forget that Rod Petrie brought in Leeann last February, and she's been a breath of fresh air.  One of the things I said to Leeann at the tail end of last season when she stood up for the club against the SFA for the play-off prices, and cut the Rangers' allocation - it was really good. 

What's your background as a Hibs fan?
My great grandfather was one of the members of the CYMS that founded Hibs, he wasn't part of the Hibs team, but he was part of the Catholic Young Men's Society that founded Hibernian Football Club. My great-grandfather, my grandfather, my father, my brothers, my nephews. There's no choice. My first Hibs game - I was 18 months old. My mother was heavily pregnant with my brother and my father was told to look after me, so he took me to Easter Road. We beat Partick 2-1, not that I remember anything of the game. The first time I can remember crying my eyes out at Hampden at the 58 Cup Final against Clyde. I thought all we had to do was turn up to beat them. We got beat 1-0, my dad told me at that point "Don't worry, there's plenty time, we'll win it one day." Now, my dad's been dead a number of years and he never saw it. I just hope that one day...

How much of a challenge did you find it moving from a prominent supporter role to the board?
I found it quite easy, actually. I was quite vocal when I was Treasurer for the Hibs Supporters Club, I was Spokesman for the Hibs Supporter's Association. There was a lot of controversy over that period and I stood up for what I thought was right. The one thing I never did, and would never do, is do the dirty washing about Hibs in public. I've had my discussions with Mr Farmer and Mr Petrie in the past, and some of the discussions have been quite volatile, and I don't see that changing. If I think it's wrong, I'll state it. I'm happy to go along with what I'm seeing at the moment because what I'm seeing - the vast majority of what I'm seeing, is very positive, even if some fans don't always see it.

Where any of your pre-conceptions about the club altered when you saw it up close?
Not really, because I've always been close to the club. I was involved with Club 86, then the Hibernians after that, then the Historical Trust when it started up. Plus the fact that I've known a lot of people, I've always been fortunate to be friendly with players, likes of Pat Stanton, Jimmy O'Rourke, Eric Schaedler, Alex Cropley, John Blackley, John Brownley, I grew up with these boys,  I used to go on nights out with them, over the years I've been lucky enough to know them. Even people like Paul Kane and George Stewart - I've known them all. Mickey Weir and Keith Wright, been to weddings and Christenings and that sort of thing, so I've been lucky and had an insight into what's happened at the club through them. I was very much on the periphery but I was very hands on with Hands Off Hibs.

So you came in with your eyes open, have there been any surprises?
The amount of work that goes on behind the scenes outside of the football. There's an awful lot of work goes on and it's so positive. What I can see has been achieved in the last year. I mean Cecil Graham, when he ran the club - and he did run the club on his own - now you look at the staff and it's phenomenal, and that's the business. When you look at the stadium, it's used 90 hours a year - or it was, now you see the work to generate more money through it's usage, and it has to happen. 

How would you describe the progress since Leeann came in?
Fantastic, absolutely fantastic, it took Leeann to come on board for the club to stand up for itself. She's been a total, total breath of fresh air, a total change of direction. Bringing in Alan Stubbs, George Craig, Graeme Mathie, all the people behind the scenes Joe McBride for the under 20's, Eddie May running the Academy. All these people have made a big, big difference. Unfortunately there had to be a clear out to allow these people to come in, and Leeann's facilitated that.

How do you see your role developing?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if there's a winning team on the park nobody gives a monkey's who's a Director. I'd like to think that's the case. All of us as Directors have to make it so that everything for the manager or head coach and his staff is in place. If that's generating money that's what we need to do. As far as the football - I'm a fan, a fanatic, however you want to put it. I just want to see the football and whatever I can do to help the coaches achieve that goal, I'll do it. I'll do anything and everything I can to support that.

What would you say to fans that are hesitant to come back?
The only way that this club is going to go forward is for these fans to come back. It's so easy to criticise but if you do that there's no point. The only way you're going to change it is from the inside, not the out. The only way we can do that is people turning  up. If they're not turning up, then don't slag them, don't be a keyboard warrior. Also you don't have to turn up every week, you can buy into HSL, buy shares, all that money's going into Hibs. I wouldn't be here if I thought for one minute that money wasn't going to the manager, and that's something that's got to be achieved. Give the team a chance, the more people that come, the better it is, the more money we have to buy better players, to keep players. The board have bent over backwards to back the manager. 

Frank took time at the end of the interview to ask me to convey his thanks to the Hibernian Disabled Supporter's Association for involving him in their meetings, and to pass on his praise for the great work that they're doing.

I'd also like to thank Colin Millar, Frank Dougan, Amit Moudgil, and Stephen Dunn for their time and patience in making these interviews happen.